I picked up The Dragonbone Chair last Autumn, lured in by rave reviews and a cover by the legendary Michael Whelan. Now, after months of reading, I’ve finished the first book in Tad Williams’ Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn trilogy - and I’ve got thoughts. Join Rediscovered Realms as I reflect on this fantasy epic, my ongoing search for the next Tolkien, and why this journey left me both enchanted and uncertain. No spoilers ahead!
Great review! I have had The Dragonbone Chair on my kindle since FOREVER and never opened it, but your thoughts have made me reconsider. I'll admit, I am often annoyed by how freakin' huge so many fantasy tomes are, and I'm not a huge fan of multiple POVs, and yet, despite all this, and your own reservations about continuing the series, you've whetted my appetite!
LOL - that's hilarious, Jennifer! My semi-negative review has had quite the opposite effect of what I would have expected! 😁 That actually makes me happy - we all have different tastes and preferences for a reason, and I was hoping I wouldn't discourage anybody. Also hoping you find epic enjoyment within Osten Ard - definitely keep me in the loop!
Hey JQ, I read this series when I was attending unit back in the 90s (I think I got it through the sci-fi/fantasy book club.) I would say my reaction is very similar to yours. I wanted to like the series a lot, but it hasn't really stuck with me. And I recall feeling a bit guilty that I didn't like it more, as it has lots of great elements. Particularly after reading the blurb by Williams about the novel "consuming his life".
I remember enjoying looking for the little parallels between his world and ours, such as the Jesus parallel with a tree instead of a cross, the Rimmersmen representing vikings, another culture representing Italy, etc. But I also remember wondering, why create these parallels when you could just use our world? (Nowadays I prefer historical fiction to fantasy)
I read the whole trilogy and I would say the other books are more of the same. And I understand about not wanting to commit to a series if you don't have to. This is why the first book of the Belgariad has been sitting on my shelf gathering dust while I read other stuff.
Around the same time I also read Wheel of Time and I enjoyed the world building in that one more (but I got bored with the series going nowhere after the 5th or so book and abandoned it).
I'll confess, while I understand Tolkien is the seminal work in fantasy, I have some similar problems as the books are a bit of a slog at times. Part of that might have been me reading them at the wrong stage of life, but there are fantasy books I much prefer.
I appreciate your insights, Kveto! The historical references at the beginning of The Dragonbone Chair got me pretty excited - Prester John and other medieval parallels - but they didn't seem to go any further than that. It was a bit of a disconnect for me, but I don't mind fantasy mashup settings (as long as they're congruent) so didn't really think about it again until your comment.
To be honest, I don't think I ever finished WoT either! I got to book 6 or 7 or so before post-adolescent life got too busy, but I do remember being frustrated with reading through entire tomes without ever reading about my favorite POV characters, which led to some frustration, as there were YEARS before RJ would pick them back up again. I still plan on revisiting it though, and going all the way!
The stage of life when you experience something is huge, I've come to realize. I would even say, even the state of mind and emotional state can make or break a book/movie/TV series/etc. for me. If I had read X when I was Y years old, I would have hated it, whereas now I would love it, etc. If I hadn't gotten laid off back in 20xx, I would never have been seeking a new fantasy read, and probably wouldn't have appreciated the escape it gave me at any other time in my life ...
Breakups, financial straits, deaths, toxic people (bullies), all create those liminal emotional states that can result in bitterness & criticality towards others' creations, but if taken advantage of, often allow for openness, novelty, and wonder.
I bet there's even a bias or ten associated with this. What state drives one to pick up a particular book at a particular time? For me, often it's pressure in the real world where I want (need!) to escape and experience something other. Or, I'm feeling low or bored or nostalgic and want to re-experience the magic of another world to reinvigorate my own. Sometimes though, I just want to go on an adventure, and that's ok, too. 🧝
All good points there. I often read books for YA now and try to decide if I would have liked it then, or if my tastes have (hopefully) matured.
I'm really a big proponent of series not overstaying their natural cycle. I purchased the first 3 wheel of time books at the same time. I read book one and two and was blown away. But then, book 3, which should have been the conclusion, didn't feature the main character at all. It was like a kick in the privates. Then the next few books, nothing happened and it was clear RJ was trying to drag things out (in comic book terms, writing for the trade or decompressed storytelling) and nothing was happening, so you just get bored with it.
By the way, do you have a section here where you list the books you have read and are going to read? I think we have similar tastes and Im always interested in stuff I was unaware of. I'd also like to give a few recommendations (although Im sure you have plenty.
I don't have a reading list section - but that's a great idea. I'd love to hear from you and other readers. I'm going to chew on that and figure out a format. Thanks for the idea!
I'm currently re-reading the trilogy. Book 1 was good, book 2 (So far) is okay. I think that book 2 could have been broken into 2, and book 3, maybe 3 books.
I am currently writing my own stories, and even though they all share a world, I try to keep them to 500 pages, or less.
I find that somewhere around 800 pages, my stories tend to lose cohesion. I have one book that's 800 pages, but I needed to finish that part of the story before I could go on.
It's all in the way a person writes.
Besides, unlike Rothfuss and Martin, Williams finished his trilogy.
I do a lot of thinking about the book before I work on the chapters. I know where I want it to end up, but between the start and the end is a wild ride.
I sometimes read the first fifty-ish pages of the first book in fantasy series to see if I'm interested in continuing. I read The Dragonbone Chair as part of that experiment and I thought it was okay, but not tantalizing enough to continue right away. You're right to carefully consider if certain books are worth the reading time.
Thank you, Kailani! I like your rule of thumb (50 pages) - I guess it would just require being ok with not getting money back after purchase (time is more valuable anyway!). I mostly read physical books, with an occasional eBook thrown in. Perhaps it's time for me to start frequenting my local library instead. 📚
I get all my books from the local library or library book sales (where a book doesn’t cost more than $2). There’s no way I could afford my reading habits if I had to buy books at full price :)
I read the trilogy years ago, and was totally enthralled for the first 2.5 books. The ending of it felt so slapdash and lackadaisical that it turned me off of Tad for good. Seemed like everything was forced into place.
I am in the pro-Covenant camp. I really enjoyed the exploration of morality, existentialism and belief. Right up front, in the early first book, is a jarring event. Thomas shows us quickly he is not a hero with a heinous act. It’s uncomfortable, but I don’t think gratuitous as its effects are of import throughout the series.
I’ve a friend who says he needs to empathize with a main character to enjoy a book and I agree that it could be tough to like the series if that were true. I understand the “con” camp and it is valid.
That being said, I’m rereading these to my fiancé and enjoying the depth and nuance. Can’t wait to be able to discuss a big, spoiler, event that happens about 6 books in…
I read the first book over the course of a month when I got it during the summer before my senior year of college with literary criticism still a fresh skill set in 2009.
I have very similar feelings. I found the world and history very interesting, the magic swords cool, storied and intriguing. But those things couldn't hold my interest past the first half of book two for me.
Loved Tailchaser's song though, even if it's just Watership Down with cats.
Thanks for sharing, Ian! I agree about the worldbuilding and magic sword lore. (I was wondering about "Tailchaser's Song" - I saw the cover and saw the cat. I like your analogy!)
I read the trilogy last year. I bought each hardcover when it originally came out. I read The Dragonbone Chair 15 or so years ago. I really liked it. I started The Stone of Farewell but for some reason I stopped reading it. I always meant to start it again because the storyline line, and characters lingered with me. I even bought paperback copies due to the weight of the hardcovers. Later I bought kindle versions. When Williams decided to continue the Osten Ard saga I bought each book, though now in digital format, always with the intent to begin again. I wanted to revisit his world. So, I did. And I'm very glad I did. Yes, the story is long, very detailed, and his style is not for everyone. But once I started, I was hooked. His characters, major and minor, hero or villain, all are interesting; they are not one-dimensional, they grow, evolve and mature They do not act as one might want them to, sometimes they are almost unbearable, but they feel real within their world. And the story is worth telling at such a length. I am so glad I made the commitment, and it is a commitment. I have his prequel volume, bridging novel, and the four-volume follow-on trilogy. I hope to begin them in the near future.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Ronald (and for becoming a member of "THE 300" paid subscribers! 💪)
It sounds like you've had a great experience with the Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series once you recommitted to it. It's good to hear the characters evolve along the way - I was wondering about that - especially for the main protagonist.
I didn't realize Williams created so many other books (prequels and such) in that world! Make sure to share your experience once you get to reading them. I'll do the same if I wind up reading Stone of Farewell.
Thanks again, Ronald & Keep the Adventure Going STRONG!
Firstly, on the book at hand, you got much further than I did. I was actually discussing this novel with someone else the other day and admitted I only got to page 320 and gave up. Probably for the exact same reasons as yourself. It just didn’t grab me the way I wanted it to. Compare that to The Name of the Wind duology (at the moment) and even though I recognised its failings, it was still enjoyable enough for me to keep reading
I was a huge fan of Eddings and really enjoyed The Belgariad but, again, by the time I got to fourth book I felt it was running out of steam. A bit like with Robert Jordan where I stopped at book 6
We’ve talked of Donaldson before and the many problems of Covenant, but Lord Foul’s Bane is a book that made me refuse to leave the house until I had finished it. Much to my parents annoyance 😁
I’ve never read Martin and think I’m at the stage where I never will. Honestly I’m not sure I have the stomach or patience for multi inter connected book series these days. The Dark Tower by King will be the last of those I’ll ever read. Not that it was terrible. Just too long
One you didn’t mention that’s always been a favourite is Magician by Raymond E Feist. The first book was excellent but then with Silverthorn and Darkness at Sethanon it lost its way. Maybe all these authors should just know when to quit. Even my beloved Dragonlance should have stopped after the Twins series
Anyway, sorry for the ramblings. Great article as always 👍🏼
Greetings, Dan. I totally meant to include "Magician" by Feist! I had a picture for it and everything, but somehow it teleported away from this newsletter edition. It was another list recommendation from about 15 years or so years ago labelled loosely as "Books to read like the Lord of the Rings". I don't remember much from them other than the "chosen one" trope and the young boy growing in experience and power (it reminded me of the innocence of the first half of The Once and Future King) - but at the time, it didn't scratch that Tolkien itch either. I'd be willing to try it again.
I remember devouring The Name of the Wind books at about the same time as Mistborn and The Acacia trilogy. All very enjoyable.
Still on the fence about starting Donaldson, but have that book near and at the ready if the inspiration strikes.
GoT found me during that same hunt for Tolkien's successor a decade-and-a-half ago. It sucks you in very quickly, before the subversion begins! Still has some of the most unsavory/unheroic scenes I have ever encountered. I'll probably not read it ever again, but may revisit the TV series at some point.
Funny enough - I hadn't read many of the Dragonlance books after the Twins series! I know I did (Tales, Heroes, Preludes), but stopped somewhere in the early 90s. The Chronicles and Legends are precious canon to me!
Good to know, I tried searching some of the songs to find more by their artists. Didn't realize it was Skynet or HAL 9000 or the Matrix. It honestly scares me how good they've become so quickly.
LOL, Ernie! I'm with you. Definitely surreal, but really fun. Make sure to let me know which songs/styles you particularly like and I'll see if I can create some others in the same vein. 🤖
Great review! I have had The Dragonbone Chair on my kindle since FOREVER and never opened it, but your thoughts have made me reconsider. I'll admit, I am often annoyed by how freakin' huge so many fantasy tomes are, and I'm not a huge fan of multiple POVs, and yet, despite all this, and your own reservations about continuing the series, you've whetted my appetite!
LOL - that's hilarious, Jennifer! My semi-negative review has had quite the opposite effect of what I would have expected! 😁 That actually makes me happy - we all have different tastes and preferences for a reason, and I was hoping I wouldn't discourage anybody. Also hoping you find epic enjoyment within Osten Ard - definitely keep me in the loop!
Hey JQ, I read this series when I was attending unit back in the 90s (I think I got it through the sci-fi/fantasy book club.) I would say my reaction is very similar to yours. I wanted to like the series a lot, but it hasn't really stuck with me. And I recall feeling a bit guilty that I didn't like it more, as it has lots of great elements. Particularly after reading the blurb by Williams about the novel "consuming his life".
I remember enjoying looking for the little parallels between his world and ours, such as the Jesus parallel with a tree instead of a cross, the Rimmersmen representing vikings, another culture representing Italy, etc. But I also remember wondering, why create these parallels when you could just use our world? (Nowadays I prefer historical fiction to fantasy)
I read the whole trilogy and I would say the other books are more of the same. And I understand about not wanting to commit to a series if you don't have to. This is why the first book of the Belgariad has been sitting on my shelf gathering dust while I read other stuff.
Around the same time I also read Wheel of Time and I enjoyed the world building in that one more (but I got bored with the series going nowhere after the 5th or so book and abandoned it).
I'll confess, while I understand Tolkien is the seminal work in fantasy, I have some similar problems as the books are a bit of a slog at times. Part of that might have been me reading them at the wrong stage of life, but there are fantasy books I much prefer.
I appreciate your insights, Kveto! The historical references at the beginning of The Dragonbone Chair got me pretty excited - Prester John and other medieval parallels - but they didn't seem to go any further than that. It was a bit of a disconnect for me, but I don't mind fantasy mashup settings (as long as they're congruent) so didn't really think about it again until your comment.
To be honest, I don't think I ever finished WoT either! I got to book 6 or 7 or so before post-adolescent life got too busy, but I do remember being frustrated with reading through entire tomes without ever reading about my favorite POV characters, which led to some frustration, as there were YEARS before RJ would pick them back up again. I still plan on revisiting it though, and going all the way!
The stage of life when you experience something is huge, I've come to realize. I would even say, even the state of mind and emotional state can make or break a book/movie/TV series/etc. for me. If I had read X when I was Y years old, I would have hated it, whereas now I would love it, etc. If I hadn't gotten laid off back in 20xx, I would never have been seeking a new fantasy read, and probably wouldn't have appreciated the escape it gave me at any other time in my life ...
Breakups, financial straits, deaths, toxic people (bullies), all create those liminal emotional states that can result in bitterness & criticality towards others' creations, but if taken advantage of, often allow for openness, novelty, and wonder.
I bet there's even a bias or ten associated with this. What state drives one to pick up a particular book at a particular time? For me, often it's pressure in the real world where I want (need!) to escape and experience something other. Or, I'm feeling low or bored or nostalgic and want to re-experience the magic of another world to reinvigorate my own. Sometimes though, I just want to go on an adventure, and that's ok, too. 🧝
All good points there. I often read books for YA now and try to decide if I would have liked it then, or if my tastes have (hopefully) matured.
I'm really a big proponent of series not overstaying their natural cycle. I purchased the first 3 wheel of time books at the same time. I read book one and two and was blown away. But then, book 3, which should have been the conclusion, didn't feature the main character at all. It was like a kick in the privates. Then the next few books, nothing happened and it was clear RJ was trying to drag things out (in comic book terms, writing for the trade or decompressed storytelling) and nothing was happening, so you just get bored with it.
By the way, do you have a section here where you list the books you have read and are going to read? I think we have similar tastes and Im always interested in stuff I was unaware of. I'd also like to give a few recommendations (although Im sure you have plenty.
Fun idea about the YA books!
I don't have a reading list section - but that's a great idea. I'd love to hear from you and other readers. I'm going to chew on that and figure out a format. Thanks for the idea!
I'm currently re-reading the trilogy. Book 1 was good, book 2 (So far) is okay. I think that book 2 could have been broken into 2, and book 3, maybe 3 books.
I am currently writing my own stories, and even though they all share a world, I try to keep them to 500 pages, or less.
I find that somewhere around 800 pages, my stories tend to lose cohesion. I have one book that's 800 pages, but I needed to finish that part of the story before I could go on.
It's all in the way a person writes.
Besides, unlike Rothfuss and Martin, Williams finished his trilogy.
Thanks for sharing, Joseph! Good points about length, writing style, and finishing a series!
Wow - it sounds like you're a prolific writer to be able to craft that many pages! Out of curiosity, are you more of a "plotter" or a "pantser"?
I do a lot of thinking about the book before I work on the chapters. I know where I want it to end up, but between the start and the end is a wild ride.
I sometimes read the first fifty-ish pages of the first book in fantasy series to see if I'm interested in continuing. I read The Dragonbone Chair as part of that experiment and I thought it was okay, but not tantalizing enough to continue right away. You're right to carefully consider if certain books are worth the reading time.
Thank you, Kailani! I like your rule of thumb (50 pages) - I guess it would just require being ok with not getting money back after purchase (time is more valuable anyway!). I mostly read physical books, with an occasional eBook thrown in. Perhaps it's time for me to start frequenting my local library instead. 📚
I get all my books from the local library or library book sales (where a book doesn’t cost more than $2). There’s no way I could afford my reading habits if I had to buy books at full price :)
lol - I hear ya!
I read the trilogy years ago, and was totally enthralled for the first 2.5 books. The ending of it felt so slapdash and lackadaisical that it turned me off of Tad for good. Seemed like everything was forced into place.
Interesting! So the ending didn't feel like it had a good payoff for you. Thanks Heavy!
I am in the pro-Covenant camp. I really enjoyed the exploration of morality, existentialism and belief. Right up front, in the early first book, is a jarring event. Thomas shows us quickly he is not a hero with a heinous act. It’s uncomfortable, but I don’t think gratuitous as its effects are of import throughout the series.
I’ve a friend who says he needs to empathize with a main character to enjoy a book and I agree that it could be tough to like the series if that were true. I understand the “con” camp and it is valid.
That being said, I’m rereading these to my fiancé and enjoying the depth and nuance. Can’t wait to be able to discuss a big, spoiler, event that happens about 6 books in…
6 books in! You guys will probably be celebrating your Bronze anniversary by then. 😁
I read the first book over the course of a month when I got it during the summer before my senior year of college with literary criticism still a fresh skill set in 2009.
I have very similar feelings. I found the world and history very interesting, the magic swords cool, storied and intriguing. But those things couldn't hold my interest past the first half of book two for me.
Loved Tailchaser's song though, even if it's just Watership Down with cats.
Thanks for sharing, Ian! I agree about the worldbuilding and magic sword lore. (I was wondering about "Tailchaser's Song" - I saw the cover and saw the cat. I like your analogy!)
I read the trilogy last year. I bought each hardcover when it originally came out. I read The Dragonbone Chair 15 or so years ago. I really liked it. I started The Stone of Farewell but for some reason I stopped reading it. I always meant to start it again because the storyline line, and characters lingered with me. I even bought paperback copies due to the weight of the hardcovers. Later I bought kindle versions. When Williams decided to continue the Osten Ard saga I bought each book, though now in digital format, always with the intent to begin again. I wanted to revisit his world. So, I did. And I'm very glad I did. Yes, the story is long, very detailed, and his style is not for everyone. But once I started, I was hooked. His characters, major and minor, hero or villain, all are interesting; they are not one-dimensional, they grow, evolve and mature They do not act as one might want them to, sometimes they are almost unbearable, but they feel real within their world. And the story is worth telling at such a length. I am so glad I made the commitment, and it is a commitment. I have his prequel volume, bridging novel, and the four-volume follow-on trilogy. I hope to begin them in the near future.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Ronald (and for becoming a member of "THE 300" paid subscribers! 💪)
It sounds like you've had a great experience with the Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series once you recommitted to it. It's good to hear the characters evolve along the way - I was wondering about that - especially for the main protagonist.
I didn't realize Williams created so many other books (prequels and such) in that world! Make sure to share your experience once you get to reading them. I'll do the same if I wind up reading Stone of Farewell.
Thanks again, Ronald & Keep the Adventure Going STRONG!
Many thoughts on this one J.Q.
Firstly, on the book at hand, you got much further than I did. I was actually discussing this novel with someone else the other day and admitted I only got to page 320 and gave up. Probably for the exact same reasons as yourself. It just didn’t grab me the way I wanted it to. Compare that to The Name of the Wind duology (at the moment) and even though I recognised its failings, it was still enjoyable enough for me to keep reading
I was a huge fan of Eddings and really enjoyed The Belgariad but, again, by the time I got to fourth book I felt it was running out of steam. A bit like with Robert Jordan where I stopped at book 6
We’ve talked of Donaldson before and the many problems of Covenant, but Lord Foul’s Bane is a book that made me refuse to leave the house until I had finished it. Much to my parents annoyance 😁
I’ve never read Martin and think I’m at the stage where I never will. Honestly I’m not sure I have the stomach or patience for multi inter connected book series these days. The Dark Tower by King will be the last of those I’ll ever read. Not that it was terrible. Just too long
One you didn’t mention that’s always been a favourite is Magician by Raymond E Feist. The first book was excellent but then with Silverthorn and Darkness at Sethanon it lost its way. Maybe all these authors should just know when to quit. Even my beloved Dragonlance should have stopped after the Twins series
Anyway, sorry for the ramblings. Great article as always 👍🏼
Greetings, Dan. I totally meant to include "Magician" by Feist! I had a picture for it and everything, but somehow it teleported away from this newsletter edition. It was another list recommendation from about 15 years or so years ago labelled loosely as "Books to read like the Lord of the Rings". I don't remember much from them other than the "chosen one" trope and the young boy growing in experience and power (it reminded me of the innocence of the first half of The Once and Future King) - but at the time, it didn't scratch that Tolkien itch either. I'd be willing to try it again.
I remember devouring The Name of the Wind books at about the same time as Mistborn and The Acacia trilogy. All very enjoyable.
Still on the fence about starting Donaldson, but have that book near and at the ready if the inspiration strikes.
GoT found me during that same hunt for Tolkien's successor a decade-and-a-half ago. It sucks you in very quickly, before the subversion begins! Still has some of the most unsavory/unheroic scenes I have ever encountered. I'll probably not read it ever again, but may revisit the TV series at some point.
Funny enough - I hadn't read many of the Dragonlance books after the Twins series! I know I did (Tales, Heroes, Preludes), but stopped somewhere in the early 90s. The Chronicles and Legends are precious canon to me!
Great discussion, Dan - thank you!
Regarding the musical selections, is there a reason the artist goes unnamed?
Hi Ernie! I use AI tools to create the weekly songs. Thanks for being a Rediscovered Realms reader (and listener!)
Good to know, I tried searching some of the songs to find more by their artists. Didn't realize it was Skynet or HAL 9000 or the Matrix. It honestly scares me how good they've become so quickly.
LOL, Ernie! I'm with you. Definitely surreal, but really fun. Make sure to let me know which songs/styles you particularly like and I'll see if I can create some others in the same vein. 🤖